26 Comments
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Inverteum Capital's avatar

I wish I was the one who wrote this post.

Key takeaway: China stole developed countries' IP to fuel its economic development and industrialization, just like Europe and Japan did before it.

Reminds me of Bill Gates's quote when Steve Jobs accused Microsoft of copying the Mac: “Well, Steve, I think it’s more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox, and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it.”

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Yaw's avatar

America too! I can write a whole post about the founders supporting spies to Britain.

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Inverteum Capital's avatar

Yes I know, but your post would be too long 😂

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mmi's avatar

I remember reading that quote a long time ago, did he actually say that?? 😂

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Xavier's avatar

Great article. I would also think Britains advanced statues in the realm of law in theory and enforcement surely helped. IP law surely falls into this

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Yaw's avatar

I agree, and their brain gain strategy.

Any country that can get brain gain, will master the world.

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Sarel Van Der Walt's avatar

Reminds me when Britain stole China’s IP to growing tea, and did this by selling them poppy (i.e. heroine) grown in northern India (i.e. Pakistan/Afghanistan).

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Miles Kellerman's avatar

Great article! I particularly liked how you frame IP appropriation as a natural component of the industrialization cycle. Another fun example is the story of Francois Xavier d’Entrecolles, a French missionary who spent years copying the secrets of Chinese porcelain production in the 17th century (link below). I wrote about this story and the cyclical battle between China and the the “West” over tech secrets a while back: https://mileskellerman.substack.com/p/china-and-the-intangible-transfer

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/porcelain-corporate-espionage-china-missionary-dentrecolles

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Yaw's avatar

Your article was fire. Loved the context on European missionaries and export controls on the Soviets.

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Victor O.'s avatar

Great article, Yaw. It puts the US tech war with China, in perspective. Developing nations would have to take this into account as they work toward building their economy. They would need to find ways of making IP applications fair. Weaponizing technology undermines IP.

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Nominal News's avatar

From a global society perspective, I wonder how much the kicking away the ladder/IP protection has hindered overall growth as non-competes do on a country scale.

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Yaw's avatar

Great question.

In our existing global framework, that's why we have foreign investment, joint ventures, academic conferences, and etc. That's supposed to help with technological spillovers to poor countries.

The problem is places like Africa & the Middle East really doesn't get much foreign investment. In Net inflows, Singapore alone gets 6.5x more FDI infows than Africa & the Middle East combined.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.KLT.DINV.CD.WD?end=2023&locations=ZG-SG-ZQ&most_recent_value_desc=false&skipRedirection=true&start=2013&view=chart

So JVs/FDI/etc. isn't sufficient enough for industrial knowledge transfer for the poorest places on earth... Unless African countries can make themselves more attractive for investment or Middle East & North African countries can provide stability to the region.

I do agree with you that weakening IP laws would function like removing non-competes. I may do a future article on that.

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Victor O.'s avatar

Current weaponization of technology ownership and the whole episode with vaccine distribution during the covid-19, may be the biggest case for weakening IP laws. Of course hopefully, it doesn't come to that and an amicable and less selfish means is found.

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Anirudh K's avatar

Super interesting article Yaw! Would be curious to see how you think IP creation and theft considering it seems like it will mainly be driven by the US and China - with some Asian countries like India or Taiwan playing key roles and Europe increasingly appearing irrelevant

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Yaw's avatar

Every country you named is a relevant player. Europe is relevant too. Biden tried to stop Dutch ASML from selling lithography equipment to China. The British firm ARM makes the best architecture for microprocessors and licenses those designs to firms like Qualcomn, Apple, and Samsung.

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Anirudh K's avatar

Thats true, I guess I've been thinking too much about LLMs!

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Yaw's avatar

Also thanks for saying the article is interesting! Vietnam and other Southeast Asia will be relevant as well.

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Jill Ferguson's avatar

Great article, Yaw!

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Yaw's avatar

Thank you!

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kartheek's avatar

If all countries did espionage,chris miller( chips book) is just being hard on USSR because it was America's greatest adversary and it is routine in western academia and in general propaganda to attribute to USSR all kinds of failings and bad things

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kartheek's avatar

Slavery played major role in extraction industries ( mining etc.,) and agriculture. Sure steam engine and other machines were invented and some of them by those who benefited by slave trade ( via leisure and being well to do) .

However their diffusion stage lasted many decades to make a difference economically -imo

So,Sweden and Denmark were no angels.

Slavery made a lot of difference in USA for sure though

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Yaw's avatar

Slavery made the South economically backwards(in terms of industrial development) as a plantation state that depended on high commodity prices for cotton, sugar, and etc to grow. Only a few plantation owners benefited and even most white people in the South were poor. Southern United States didn't even industrialize until the 1950s.

The North benefited from slavery in the sense that they received cheap raw cotton for textile mills and other raw materials, but the North industrialized because Northern states had a way more entrepreneurial culture and stole IP from Britain since before independence (which I will write about next).

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kartheek's avatar

USA isn't a separate country and this assessment of backwardness in terms of industrial development isn't right- imo. No one asks same question with respect to services sector.( I am not trying to be cross by saying about service sector. I am hoping it is a good point )

Slavery reduced prices and US exported agriculture goods in return for industrial ones during 1789-1865 period or till industry acquired some size and employment to be lucrative!!

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kartheek's avatar

USSR wasn't hindered in chip development etc., due to initial reverse engineering because USSR is under sanctions already after 1945 but definitely by 1950 whereas china is being subjected to sanctions now a days that too limited ones.

It is a new thing at that time and this generation ( 1G etc.,) is kind of arbitrary. So, the west being ahead is arbitrary - imo.

Also since it was invented in USA and at height of cold war, US was ahead and USSR didn't exist to see what would have happened by year 2000 as computers became phenomenon in 1990's only and Robert slow was saying " effect of computers not evident in economic indicators" or something along that line

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Yaw's avatar

it's not arbitrary that's the whole tension.

When you are at the technological frontier you aren't copying you are protecting your IP (Hence why biden put export controls for AMD/Nvidia/Qualcomn chips on the whole world except for allies yesterday).

When you are playing catch up you gotta do technology acquisition. Either through trade/reverse engineer/license or if you are sanctioned, then you have to steal IP or acquire through 3rd countries. A third way is out innovate with a new process if possible..

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kartheek's avatar

I meant arbitrary to say about the labeling of chip versions and generations since chris miller was saying US was a generation ahead !!.

Guess he is basing that on moore's law, but that is only in research institutes not wider industry in 70's & 80's and he doesn't have access to USSR R&D !!

Chips sanctions on china is part of US containment and roll back strategy of USA & its friends.

Normally if someone is offering cheaper price,it is lapped up not USA et al though,who are all for free trade 😉

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